Rémy Martin Louis XIII

And another Rémy Martin Louis XIII Grande Champagne Cognac.This one is located in Delray Beach, Florida.

The Reader writes “I have had this special bottle of Remy Martin Louis XIII in my collection for a long time, given as a gift from a restaurateur. Although the year is not identifiable on the bottle, I was told it dates back to the 30′s. I would appreciate some help in identifying the year and value of the bottle, as well as welcome any offers to buy.”

(If you also have a Cognac bottle you would like to sell, or you need information about age or value – send us photos and information, just submit: Use this form – but please be aware: if you don’t follow the steps precisely, we will not publish your bottle.)

Bottle in Box

The label reads: Grand Fine Champgagne
Louis XIII Brand
Rarest Reserve
Distilled and Bottled by E. Remy Martin & Co. – Cognac France
4/5 Quart
80 Proof
Produce of France

Box

How has the bottle been stored:

  • At room temperature

Some more information about the bottle:

  • Everythings seems fine

Bottle out of Box

The level of the cognac: High shoulder or top shoulder: the level of cognac has reached the upper curve of the shoulder

Our reader would like to sell this bottle of Rémy Martin Louis XIII.

Please make your offers, ask questions or inform us about this bottle – give your opinion. Buyers please note: We do not accept simply pasting your email address into the comments – please make an offer first; then later on we will connect buyer and seller. Thank you.

Buyers please note: We do not accept simply pasting email addresses into the comments – please make an offer first; then later on we will connect buyer and seller. Thank you.

For both bottle owners and potential buyers: If you want to get in touch with respective owners or buyers please send a mail to info@cognac-expert.com expressing this wish.

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23 Responses

#1 Michael on Dec 11, 2013, says:

This is the wrong box for this bottle. The box is from 1980-1990.
The bottle is older… how old? What is the engraving under the bottle? Is there an engraved serial number? Is there a Baccarat logo? Is there an engraved number under the crystal stopper?
Mixing and matching Louis XIII creates a real problem dating the cognac :)

#2 Anthony on Dec 18, 2013, says:

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your quick response for your help identifying the bottle. The underside of the bottle says E. REMY MARTIN & C(LE?) – COGNAC FRANCE – MADE IN FRANCE BY BACCARAT. There is also what appears to be a hand engraved “28″ or perhaps a “&2″ or “82″ when looked at upside down. The crystal stopper appears to have an upside down “14″ engraved in a red on the side of the stopper and then again on the bottom, or perhaps a “1/4″ engraved… There is a a serial number (or some number) printed on the red bottle stamp label on the sealed stopper that reads 36A3840984. I’m not sure if any of that information helps ID the bottle, but I would appreciate your follow up. I can send more pics if need be. Thanks Michael!

#3 Michael on Dec 18, 2013, says:

Hi Anthony,
You did not mention a Baccarat logo? A little circle (3/4″ diameter) with outline of a decanter and 2 glasses located after the word “BACCARAT”. If this logo is present the decanter is from after 1946 if there is no logo it is from 1936-1940.
The name under the bottle is E. REMY MARTIN & Cie (Abbreviation of French word “Compagnie”)
Engraved number is consistent with early Baccarat bottle. They were hand-numbered from 1936 to about 1965. Number under stopper and decanter should match. If not someone has replaced the stopper.
A photo of the bottom of the decanter would be great.
It could be a very nice bottle worth some money (up to $3K). Just needs the right box.

#4 roman on Dec 18, 2013, says:

your stopper did not come with this decanter just as the box, if they came from a same set they would have matching numbers

#5 Michael on Dec 23, 2013, says:

Anthony, do I see a second stopper in the box (wrapped in bubble plastic in the upper right corner)? It would be nice if you have the original stopper with the matching number since your bottle is an original numbered Baccarat. Is there a Baccarat logo under the bottle?

#6 Crystal on Dec 31, 2013, says:

Hi,

I am interested in this bottle. May I know how much you will sell it for? Thank you.

#7 Colin on Jan 5, 2014, says:

Hello, This is marvellous to see the détective work. The stopper and the box, all totally correct déductions.
In the 1930′s this bottle would not have been named “Louis XIII”. it would have been known as “Age Inconnu”. It wasn’t until the later part of the middle 1950′s that the bottles, started being called louis XIII by the American market and for the american market. Nobody seems to have the date though not to mention why that name.

#8 Anthony on Jan 6, 2014, says:

Hello All,

Thank you for your input and I apologize for my delayed response. Michael, I do not see the Baccarat logo after the word under the bottle, so I assume the bottle is from the 1936-1940 era. I noticed too that the underside of the decanter also says DEPOSE, where it starts to curve up to the body. It is someone what difficult to identify the number on the stopper, as I mentioned before it appears to have an upside down “14″ engraved in a red on the side of the stopper and then again on the bottom, or perhaps a “1/4″ engraved. I suppose this doesn’t match the decanter. The second stopper that was bubble wrapped, is a small stopper with a yellow 1″ “squiggly line”, with a yellow bubble on the bottom. The total height of the stopper is about 2-1/2″ inches.

I would like to sell the bottle, but first want to try and accurately determine its value, so I appreciate the continued insight from the responding parties. I would like to attach more pictures but I’m not sure I can do it via this listing…

#9 Sebastian (Cognac-Expert.com) on Jan 7, 2014, says:

Hello Anthony, please send your additional pictures to sebastian@cognac-expert.com and I will update the post.

#10 Michael on Jan 9, 2014, says:

The stopper does not match the bottle which is a shame. The bottle appears to be from the pre-WW2 Baccarat era – 1936-1939 period.
The name Louis XIII was used in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s. However this type of label appears more in line with 1950s bottles than 1930s that either carried the rectangular “Age Inconnu” label or the bean-shaped “Louis XIII – Very Old” label. The type of label on your bottle I have only seen on mid 1950s bottles and they typically also have the Baccarat Logo.

#11 Field on Jan 9, 2014, says:

I wrote a paragraph which has dissapeared. Probably my fault , but if it isn’t then I shall peacefully dissapear after this.
After spending many hours on 5 different occasions in the Remy Martin private museum where they keep to the best of thier ability all the bottles they have made.
And as a humble collectioner of remu Martin 1813 and 1834.
When the Queen of England was presented with a bottle and Churchill too, something well documented and for which the house of Remy Martin is very proud the bottle was called “age Inconnu” not louis xiii!

If indeed thier is any proof of this existing before 1955, please share the info, if you would.

Ok Im off now and I won’t bother you anymore
Colin peter field

#12 Sebastian (Cognac-Expert.com) on Jan 9, 2014, says:

Dear Colin Peter Field, we really appreciate the comments you made, especially when you contribute to what you called detective work (in general we appreciate every single comment that shows deep connoisseurship). To protect both bottle owners and buyers we delete email-adresses and/or URLs written in comments but no paragraphs. You definitely can be sure of that.

#13 Michael on Jan 9, 2014, says:

I would be very interested in discussing this subject with Colin Peter Field as I am sure we can help each other fill in pieces of the Louis XIII timeline. I have a photo of a US bottle sold in Los Angeles in 1939 with a tax label (1939) and a sticker “Louis XIII Brand”. I am pretty convinced that the “Louis XIII Brand – Very Old” and the “Age Inconnu” are two different grade cognacs sold in the same Louis XIII decanter during the same time period.
I have found evidence of “Age Inconnu” bottles from 1937 to 1960 but many of the other bottles “Tres Vieux” – “Very Old” sold during the same period.

#14 Michael on Jan 9, 2014, says:

I can also add that the St Louis crystal bottles that preceded the Baccarat bottles (including the “Age Inconnu”) had a bean shaped sticker marked “Grand Champagne Cognac – Louis XIII – Tres Vieux” I own one of these bottle probably from the late 1920s. I can provide photos to Colin if he is interested.
Hors d’Age, Age Inconnu and Tres Vieux are all cognac grades used in the early 1900s – all older than Extra which was typically aged 60 years in casks. So the fact that “Age Inconnu” rectangular stickers were used on some bottles does not necessarily mean that the cognac was known by the name “Age Inconnu”.
I also own a few “Age Inconnu” bottles from the 1930s and some interesting ones from the early 1960s… the only ones I have ever seen that were not presented in a rattan basket but in a beige cardboard box sold about 1962.
They are the closest proof I have to my theory about the coexistence of two grades of Louis XIII cognac because in 1962 you could buy a “Louis XIII – Very Old” and an “Age Inconnu” in the exact same box.

#15 Field on Jan 9, 2014, says:

I know that Leon Gestoldt patented the bottle in1878 under age unconnu in america, a few years before it was patented by paul emile remy martin in Angouleme.. There would possibly be a french run of age inconnu and a Louis Xiii amercan export at the same time for a short while, but there Im guessing.
The bombshell would be a proven louis Xiii from the 20′s.
I would love to see it. How do yo prove though that it was 1920′s?

#16 Michael on Jan 10, 2014, says:

It is difficult to prove. I only have the “generally accepted” fact that Remy Martin switched to using Baccarat for the decanter manufacture in 1936. It follows that any St Louis decanter with a white capsule would be from before 1936.

It is also “generally accepted” that Baccarat decanters from before WW2 (1936-1940) do not have the Baccarat logo, just the words “Made in France by Baccarat” while the ones from 1947 onward have a small Baccarat logo.
This helps assess the age of early Baccarat bottles.

The St Louis decanters from the 1930s look identical to the post 1936 Baccarat decanters. But there are also less regular St Louis decanters with only nine “fins” on each side which I believe are from the 1910 or 1920 era. I have a photo of one such full bottle with logo. It is marked “Grande Champagne – Louis XIII – Very Old”.

I own one of the newer (10 fins/side, 1930s) full St Louis bottles with the same “bean-shaped” label with the same text.

I have seen 4 well-preserved full St Louis decanters and NONE have the “Age Inconnu” label. All are marked “Grande Champagne – Louis XIII – Very Old” on a bean shaped label.

The Baccarat bottle with the 1939 California tax sticker also has that same label with the same wording.

Prior to the “St Louis” crystal bottles the bottles were made of hand blown glass with acid etched markings reading just “Remy Martin Cognac – France”. These I believe are from the 1880s. Very irregular, nine fins per side. I have not seen a full one so I don’t know what the labels looked like. I do have one of these 1880s bottle (empty) in my collection.

I wish I could post photos here. Below is a link to my Louis XIII bottle tabulation if Sebastian allows it through. It is a work in progress but hopefully somewhat helpful. I had not yet determined that “Age Inconnu” and “Very Old” labels co-existed when I updated last so it still places the rectangular “Age Inconnu” stickers alone in the 1938-1950 time slot.

http://www.vieuxcognacs.com/LouisXIII/LouisXIII.html

#17 Sebastian (Cognac-Expert.com) on Jan 10, 2014, says:

Hello Michael, these are two comments by Mr. Field, by accident he sent them via email:

this is very good gen. Great info. I will get back to Remy Martin and then back to you. it all takes time.

I have just contacted Morgan de Premorel the Louis XIII Ambassadeur, hoping that he can help me a little with this hive of information that you have sent.
Next stage might be Veronique Brown from Baccarat.
This is very interesting stuff

colin

#18 Michael on Jan 15, 2014, says:

I have updated the dating table with additional information regarding the “Age Inconnu” bottles. See entries for 1938-1939 and 1962.

#19 Field on Jan 24, 2014, says:

The chart is amazing. Thankyou for sending it. But how do you manage to give so much precision on the early dates? exception given, and I stand corrected, on the 1936 Baccarat

Bearing in mind that the Numbers on the bottles actually didn’t follow suit.

I have a “feeling” that perhaps that the different crystal factories might have been all working at the same time producing different quality carafes.

#20 Michael on Jan 24, 2014, says:

Hi Colin – Thank you for the compliment. The information is subject to disclaimers regarding possible errors, inaccuracies etc.

I tried to include everything I read or discovered on the web about the Louis XIII combined with personal observation of the many , many bottles I have bought.

Part of my theory on the timeline goes back to an article on Finest and Rarest were they presented the St Louis, early Baccarat and late Baccarat bottles with date break points. I added on to it little by little but I am still open to completely rethink everything I put in the chart if am proven wrong.

I just bought bottle #112 a “Non-Logo” Baccarat (pre-1940) with the bean shaped sticker in the green case with the yellow cardboard liner. It definitely points to coexistence of “Age Inconnu” and “Louis XIII Brand” in the pre-war years and also refutes my theory that the first boxes (not baskets) appeared in 1947. I now think that the “Royal visit of 1938″ launched the green velvet boxes.

I have also assembled a large number of photos of the bottom of decanters with engraved numbers. It is more and more apparent that the bottles were numbered sequentially from #1 to about #1,000 when RM stopped numbering the Louis XIII. There appears to be no duplication and the sequence of the numbers is consistent, all recorded “pre-logo” bottles have numbers between 26 and 112 and all “post-logo” bottles have numbers greater than 186. The only two bottles without the name Baccarat engraved are No. 6 and No.12, numbers lower than any other bottle known to me so likely the first Baccarat prototypes from 1936 or 1937.

It is also interesting that I have never found a St Louis bottle with a number or with a box of any kind. I do believe all St Louis bottles pre-date the first Baccarat and if there was any parallel production it ceased before WW2.

One of the latest Louis XIII bottles presented on this site is very problematic. It is the bottle in the green case that the criminal defense attorney is trying to sell. The bottle label and box point to an early 1950s variant. The card (1938/1957) to a post 1957 bottle but most problematic is the capsule which has the new centaur logo from post 1963. In 1963 the Louis XIII came in the cream colored box and a year later in the oval red case. The bottle has either been refilled and resealed using the wrong capsule or a newer bottle has been “reworked” to make it look older for example by adding a engraved number and transferring a rectangular label to it and presenting it in an older case. This is definitely a very “fishy” Louis XIII.

The rectangular label is interesting because it is the first I see translated into English. I have a handful of Age Inconnu bottles and all have French labels.

#21 Sebastian (Cognac-Expert.com) on Jan 27, 2014, says:

Here’s another comment by Mr. Field: I had a marvellous lunch with the RM/Louis XIII communications team. I’d forgotten that the original bottle was a metal flask. It didn’t have any fins on it and was mysteriously stolen from the Museum of Cluny in a move some years ago. Which would explain why the one I saw when I visited was in glass. I learned that the fins on the bottles could go up to 15! on some bottles as the ‘maitres verriers” would just have thier way from time to time.
They ve promised to help me on the mysterious ages and confirm that “age inconnu” was going out at the same time as’ Louis XIII’ whether André Renauds reserve was blended in or seperate is going to be difficult to find out at the moment.
Apparently there is even a note/bill/order circa 19OO, which I just might get a photocopy
where the two names are together.
Anyway they are jolly helpful and will get back soon.

#22 Nom on Mar 23, 2014, says:

I have an acid etched empty older bottle w/ 9 fins, no topper. Hand blown glss w/ multiple air bubbles common to the period. Any value?

#23 Michael on Mar 24, 2014, says:

Hi Nom,

Your bottle is probably quite old… I am guessing late 1800s or early 1900s. Remy Martin has extremely poor records of their production history and basically useless in answering questions on older Louis XIII bottles and packaging.
The “general consensus” on old Louis XIII is that Baccarat decanters were used from 1936 or 1937 and that St Louis Crystal decanters were used prior to Baccarat. There are St Louis bottles with 10 fins as well as some with 9 fins.

But Louis XIII bottles were used from 1874 onward and there are regular glass bottles predating the St Louis Crystal bottles.

I own such a bottle that is definitely hand blown, has neither St Louis or Baccarat markings and is acid etched “E. Remy Martin & Cie” – “Cognac France”. It has nine fins and a taller neck than St Louis and Baccarat bottles, as well as a different mouth shape (sharp angles)
The Fleur-de-Lys medallions are smaller than on current bottles and their orientation and location appears to have be done by hand (very irregular)
I have a stopper for mine. Very lightweight hand-blown glass.

I am guessing you have a similar bottle? A Louis XIII collector may put a significant value on such a bottle. I would be interested in seeing pictures of yours.

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